signed into law this day 4 years ago, the patriot act still continues to suck all your freedoms into it's gaping maw.
i just heard that a bill was passed to make it illegal to torture POW's (it wasn't already?) and bush wants and exemption for the CIA... wha wha WHA??? so i guess they're allowed to torture detainees, but if they speak out against the war in iraq you'll release their personal information to the new york times?
hey, jj and mabs... room for one more in canada?
happy birthday, end of freedom!
Moderators: Zero, John Madden, Bob Ross, General Zod, Richard Simmons, Batman
LOL I have been watching with some interest lately, and that "exemption" is sorta hilarious in a bone-chilling kinda way, isn't it???
The "patriot act" comes about as close as one should ever get to the classic inscription on Nazi concentration camps "arbeit macht frei" (from what I know loosely translated as "work makes/empowers freedom")
The orwellian depths to which the current US administration has managed to sink (rise??) are truly mind-boggling...
You would make a fine Canadian, vyn, I'm sure we could fit ya in somewheres .....although our government is secretly marching lock-step with yours, vis-a-vis the Patriot act... the Fed recently started putting legislation in place mandating that telecommunicatios companies build into their networks the ability to "wiretap" any form of communication, and specifically and ominously requested that up to 7000 different channels simultaneously.... JJ should be able to help here, but in recent years, the number of "authorized" wiretaps is usually something under 100 (authorized as in "got all the paperwork cos they were gonna need to use stuff contained in the transmission in court and it had to be admissible)
So as long as you don't mind having your freedoms (and I use that word loosely, in this LOL "post-9-11 world) takien away without your knowledge (heck at least they published a couple of pages of the "patriot act", what, like maybe 5 out of a couple thousand or some stupid bullshit like that??) then you should look into heading on up!!!
"in order to preserve your freedoms, we're gonna have to take 'em and lock 'em up somewhere safe til this 'War' is over, see"- what dubya might as well just come out and fucking say
The "patriot act" comes about as close as one should ever get to the classic inscription on Nazi concentration camps "arbeit macht frei" (from what I know loosely translated as "work makes/empowers freedom")
The orwellian depths to which the current US administration has managed to sink (rise??) are truly mind-boggling...
You would make a fine Canadian, vyn, I'm sure we could fit ya in somewheres .....although our government is secretly marching lock-step with yours, vis-a-vis the Patriot act... the Fed recently started putting legislation in place mandating that telecommunicatios companies build into their networks the ability to "wiretap" any form of communication, and specifically and ominously requested that up to 7000 different channels simultaneously.... JJ should be able to help here, but in recent years, the number of "authorized" wiretaps is usually something under 100 (authorized as in "got all the paperwork cos they were gonna need to use stuff contained in the transmission in court and it had to be admissible)
So as long as you don't mind having your freedoms (and I use that word loosely, in this LOL "post-9-11 world) takien away without your knowledge (heck at least they published a couple of pages of the "patriot act", what, like maybe 5 out of a couple thousand or some stupid bullshit like that??) then you should look into heading on up!!!
"in order to preserve your freedoms, we're gonna have to take 'em and lock 'em up somewhere safe til this 'War' is over, see"- what dubya might as well just come out and fucking say
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vynsane
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yeah, meanwhile i heard on NPR your PM talking about how america has little to no credibility to the rest of the world, and threatening to sell your oil to china instead of us, even though your constitution states you can't use oil as leverage... i didn't hear the entire thing, but it was about soft wood trade and the fact that in 2007 you're gonna need a passport to enter america from canada... something that's NEVER been required before... oh, and he's pissed about the apparent gun smuggling into toronto...
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Troopersmo
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jjreason
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Funny, I always pictured him as a plum gargler.
Oh, and about the wiretaps...... that's the hardest judicial authorization of all to get. You don't apply to get just the phone tapped though, you're applying to intercept ALL of somone's personal communications - 1 application can get you the landline phone, bugs in the cars, cloned cell phones and pagers, etc - whatever you think you'll need to get the evidence you're looking for.
Due to the expense of simply monitoring someone's communications (you usually need a whole team of people to monitor and transcribe, then prepare it all for court), and the dire amount of typing and previous investigation it takes to GET one of these things..... they usually don't happen. I can't imagine that in all of Canada there'd be 100 "wires" up and running at any given time - and we've got 30 million people up here. They're usually reserved for murderers and people conspiring to commit horrendous acts.
It's interesting about the part where they want the lines built to "flip a switch" for monitoring - I happen to know for sure that there are parts of Canada where that's already the case. On the last project my wife worked on (as a monitor), there was no "hard" install (we used to have to b&e a guys place to bug his phone) - it was simply dealt with by the phone company.
All that being said, I'm only (barely) knowledgeable of what happens from the police perspective - where, as Mabs stated above, we need the info gained through these means to get into court. I'm sure our spooks (CSIS - basically the Canadian version of the CIA) don't have to have the bar set nearly so high. Suspicion of potential terrorist acts being planned would likely be enough. Oh, and lucky me - as a member of the RCMP I'm subject to surveillance of this nature by other (IA) police officers without any warning - and apparently without much need for a big application. In other words - if IA suspects you're crooked, you get wired up. Simple as that.
Talk about an interesting subject, wiretaps rock!!!!
Oh, and about the wiretaps...... that's the hardest judicial authorization of all to get. You don't apply to get just the phone tapped though, you're applying to intercept ALL of somone's personal communications - 1 application can get you the landline phone, bugs in the cars, cloned cell phones and pagers, etc - whatever you think you'll need to get the evidence you're looking for.
Due to the expense of simply monitoring someone's communications (you usually need a whole team of people to monitor and transcribe, then prepare it all for court), and the dire amount of typing and previous investigation it takes to GET one of these things..... they usually don't happen. I can't imagine that in all of Canada there'd be 100 "wires" up and running at any given time - and we've got 30 million people up here. They're usually reserved for murderers and people conspiring to commit horrendous acts.
It's interesting about the part where they want the lines built to "flip a switch" for monitoring - I happen to know for sure that there are parts of Canada where that's already the case. On the last project my wife worked on (as a monitor), there was no "hard" install (we used to have to b&e a guys place to bug his phone) - it was simply dealt with by the phone company.
All that being said, I'm only (barely) knowledgeable of what happens from the police perspective - where, as Mabs stated above, we need the info gained through these means to get into court. I'm sure our spooks (CSIS - basically the Canadian version of the CIA) don't have to have the bar set nearly so high. Suspicion of potential terrorist acts being planned would likely be enough. Oh, and lucky me - as a member of the RCMP I'm subject to surveillance of this nature by other (IA) police officers without any warning - and apparently without much need for a big application. In other words - if IA suspects you're crooked, you get wired up. Simple as that.
Talk about an interesting subject, wiretaps rock!!!!
freedom was only a false sense of something that we allowed ourselves to think that we had, without really knowing that it doesn't really exist. we use it as a reason to fight, because it is in our nature to fight. Big Brother has been watching all of our lives already, all the patriot act does it freakin' admit it.
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Snigtad Flornbi
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anarky
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Is anyone else hugely disturbed by the news that broke earlier today regarding the database of pretty much all phone calls within the US?
No, I'm not referring to the wiretap scandal, which was more than Orwellian enough for my tastes. This is a record of all phone calls placed in the US, minus those from Quest Communications (which I've never heard of, so it probably isn't as big as AT&T or Verizon--okay, I've heard of it, but that's about it). Sure, there's supposedly no personal info, but come on--even <b>I</b> can get names and addresses from a phone number using basic civilian means on the internet.
So they complain that there were too many calls under the wiretapping program they'd already admitted to, and now it comes out that there's an additional database of phone calls which is the largest database of any sort in the world? How can they claim this is for our defense and protection if they've already said they can't sift through it? WTF?
And how is knowing that I called my mother last Tuesday at 9:12 PST and spoke for exactly seven minutes and twelve seconds going to save us from certain doom?
Scariest of all: this was specifically outlawed in the 1970s, and is <b>still</b> illegal, even under the so-called "Patriot Act."
We now know that Big Brother knows every phone call we've made, every bank or credit card transaction we've made, basically everything except possibly how many times we've had sex in our lives (and I wouldn't doubt they have a database on that). Likely, we're shipping people to other countries to torture them on foreign soil. Oh, and there are thousands of US citizens and foreign nationals who have been held for two years or more without a trial, or even formal charges. Most of them haven't even been processed to find out if they should be imprisoned, and by all accounts many have been tortured.
What are they <b>not</b> admitting to?
I hate to sound like you-know-who here, but this stuff is downright scary. Yes, we need security and protection. But going to a police state and using fear tactics to keep the people in line? Why don't we all just move to Iran or Saudi Arabia, where at least they're honest and forthright and tell you that they can kill you for petty reasons instead of lying about it?
No, I'm not referring to the wiretap scandal, which was more than Orwellian enough for my tastes. This is a record of all phone calls placed in the US, minus those from Quest Communications (which I've never heard of, so it probably isn't as big as AT&T or Verizon--okay, I've heard of it, but that's about it). Sure, there's supposedly no personal info, but come on--even <b>I</b> can get names and addresses from a phone number using basic civilian means on the internet.
So they complain that there were too many calls under the wiretapping program they'd already admitted to, and now it comes out that there's an additional database of phone calls which is the largest database of any sort in the world? How can they claim this is for our defense and protection if they've already said they can't sift through it? WTF?
And how is knowing that I called my mother last Tuesday at 9:12 PST and spoke for exactly seven minutes and twelve seconds going to save us from certain doom?
Scariest of all: this was specifically outlawed in the 1970s, and is <b>still</b> illegal, even under the so-called "Patriot Act."
We now know that Big Brother knows every phone call we've made, every bank or credit card transaction we've made, basically everything except possibly how many times we've had sex in our lives (and I wouldn't doubt they have a database on that). Likely, we're shipping people to other countries to torture them on foreign soil. Oh, and there are thousands of US citizens and foreign nationals who have been held for two years or more without a trial, or even formal charges. Most of them haven't even been processed to find out if they should be imprisoned, and by all accounts many have been tortured.
What are they <b>not</b> admitting to?
I hate to sound like you-know-who here, but this stuff is downright scary. Yes, we need security and protection. But going to a police state and using fear tactics to keep the people in line? Why don't we all just move to Iran or Saudi Arabia, where at least they're honest and forthright and tell you that they can kill you for petty reasons instead of lying about it?
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The Ghost of Lemmys Warts
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Diabolical
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Diabolical
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jjreason</i>
<br />Be careful and use protection, that mofo makes twins.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's ok - I'm the pitcher and he's the catcher.
<br />Be careful and use protection, that mofo makes twins.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's ok - I'm the pitcher and he's the catcher.
